11 Mar
Question
Topical Questions

The UK Parliamentary session on Topical Questions in the House of Commons focused on several crucial justice issues, including prisons, sentencing, drug-related deaths, probation services, and legislative commitments. The session showcased a meticulous examination of the justice system, attacking inefficiencies and proposing reforms, primarily driven by the Justice Secretary, Shabana Mahmood.

Outcome

The session revealed potential alignment across party lines on specific issues such as women in prison and equal sentencing guidelines, yet ongoing political tensions around responsibility for historical deficiencies persisted. Key outcomes included reiterated commitments to address the racial disparity in sentencing, and vows for enhanced interdepartmental collaboration to tackle drug-related issues and legislative responses to systemic delays.

Key Contributions

Mr Gregory CampbellMP
DUP

Emphasized the appeal for government collaboration with devolved administrations to address drug-related deaths, which are higher in the UK than in Northern Ireland.

Shabana MahmoodJustice Secretary
Labour

Addressed inherited failures in the justice system, announced investments in courts and reforms in probation services, cited lessons from Texas on reducing reoffending, and highlighted a commitment to safer streets.

Ian LaveryMP
Labour

Raised concerns over the high pension age for prison officers amidst rising assaults, seeking updates on discussions to address this issue.

Sir Nicholas DakinMP

Acknowledged the complexity around prison officers' pension age, committing to engage with unions and provide further advice on industrial work conditions.

Robert JenrickMP
Conservative

Criticized discrepancies in new sentencing guidelines. Challenged Justice Secretary's responses and called for swift legislative intervention to block the introduction of a two-tier justice system.

Liz TwistMP
Labour

Questioned principles of equality before law concerning Sentencing Council guidelines, urging accountability from Conservative members.

Vikki SladeMP
Liberal Democrats

Expressed concern about female offenders prosecuted for minor offences, highlighting impacts on their children and stressing need for extended support beyond 2025 strategy.

Jessica ToaleMP
Labour

Called attention to declining rape victim outcomes, emphasized backlog-induced drops in victim engagement, and pushed for prioritization of streamlining rape case throughput.

Lewis CockingMP
Conservative

Inquired about measures to reduce the foreign national offender prison population to zero from 12%.

Darren PaffeyMP
Labour

Raised grave concerns over online platforms enabling access to harmful substances following a tragic local case, urging legal loophole closures for enhanced digital-age protection.

Sarah BoolMP
Conservative

Questioned government strategy on intermediate courts, seeking assurances of non-redundancy in clearing court backlogs.

Paula BarkerMP
Labour

Alerted to homeless ex-offenders' plight suggesting potential exacerbation by current prison policy shifts and demanded full inter-ministerial cooperation for mitigation.

Esther McVeyMP
Conservative

Called for immediate legislation to prevent a perceived two-tier justice system and preserve legal equality.

Luke MurphyMP
Labour

Highlighted a constituent’s financial abuse post-divorce, petitioning for a review of guidance to factor domestic abuse more prominently.

Sir Julian LewisMP
Conservative

Raised concerns regarding adequate protective powers against individuals expressing foreign terror sympathies, stressing the need for comprehensive legislative measures.

Warinder JussMP
Labour

Underlined pressure on probation service amidst increasing demand, urging prioritized recruitment and manageable caseload restructuring for service efficacy.

Mr Joshua ReynoldsMP
Liberal Democrats

Sought equity in victim support for families of Brits killed abroad, paralleling rights with domestic homicide victims.

Mr Paul FosterMP
Labour

Lobbied for the availability of court transcripts following a harrowing murder case within his consistency.

Siân BerryMP
Green

Sustained emphasis on pre-sentencing reports' efficacy in proceedings, urging the Justice Secretary to bolster council’s supported independence.

Kim JohnsonMP
Labour

Advocated for reform to joint enterprise law, hinting at potential prison space alleviation and associated financial benefits.

Jim AllisterMP
TUV

Addressed disparities in inquest conduct across UK regions, citing Northern Ireland examples, proposing legislative uniformity.

Brian LeishmanMP
Labour

Critiqued privatised prison maintenance failings, pressing for a return to in-house management to solve estate issues.

Ayoub KhanMP
Ind

Criticized Sentencing Council's actions with pre-sentencing guidelines suggesting existing racial sentencing disparities should necessitate further scrutiny.

Steve RaceMP
Labour

Promoted legal reform via 'Helen's law 2' for post-mortem body concealment to enhance justice for murder victims' families.

Original Transcript
Mr Gregory Campbell
East Londonderry
DUP
12:17
Question
UIN: 903133

T1. If she will make a statement on her departmental responsibilities.

Mr Campbell

On average, more than 130 people every week across the UK die from drug-related causes. That is more than 6,500 families and homes devasted each year by that tragic loss of life, including more than 200 in Northern Ireland alone.

Will the Secretary of State commit to working with each of the devolved Administrations to prioritise prevention and review enforcement against the use of all illegal substances?

Shabana Mahmood
12:19

The hon. Gentleman makes an incredibly important point. Fixing the problems that he notes requires work by not just the Ministry of Justice, but the devolved Administrations and the Home Office. I will ensure that he can engage with the relevant Ministers on the issues he raises.

Ian Lavery
Blyth and Ashington
Lab
12:19
Question
UIN: 903135

T3.   Last year, assaults on prison staff were up by 19% and serious assaults were up by 22%, yet the pensionable age of prison officers is still 68—it is simply too late.

Can the Minister update the House on any discussions he may have had with officials regarding that industrial injustice and say when these loyal public servants might expect to see this long-standing issue corrected?

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice
Sir Nicholas Dakin
12:19

We recognise the unique and challenging role that prison officers play in protecting the public and reducing reoffending.

The Lord Chancellor has requested advice from officials on the pension age of prison officers, and we will continue to engage with trade unions as we work through this complex issue while considering the wider fiscal context. I am meeting the hon.

Member for Aberdeenshire North and Moray East (Seamus Logan) to discuss this important issue next week, and I am very happy for my hon. Friend to join that meeting if he wishes.

Mr Speaker

I call the shadow Secretary of State.

Shabana Mahmood
12:19

The shadow Lord Chancellor’s amnesia continues, because he clearly has not done his homework; he has forgotten that his Government were consulted extensively on this guidance.

It also appears that he cannot read, because the letter states very clearly all the consultation that took place under his Government. It shows that they were consulted numerous times on the new guidance and welcomed it—I notice that he did not refer to that.

He knows full well that the change he refers to is a minor change, because the reference to race, ethnicity and cultural backgrounds has been retained in the time his Government seeing it and the changes that occurred, so he cannot hide behind that.

The last few days have therefore been an expert lesson from the right hon. Gentleman: he has taught us all how to throw the shadow Transport Secretary under a bus.

Robert Jenrick
12:19

As a lawyer herself, I would have thought that the Justice Secretary would know the difference between the last set of guidance and the new one. I say “as a lawyer,” but in this Cabinet we never really know who is a real lawyer and who is just pretending to be one.

In 21 days’ time, by the Justice Secretary’s own admission, we will have two-tier justice. Her plan to fix that will not come into effect for a year, and that is unacceptable. As she has been too lazy to do her job, I will do it for her.

Today I am presenting a Bill to block these two-tier sentencing guidelines and fix her mess; it is here and ready to go. Will she support it? Will she stand with us on the Conservative Benches for equality under the law, or will it be two-tier justice with her and two-tier Keir?

Shabana Mahmood

The whole House can see that the only pretence at a job is the one that the shadow Lord Chancellor is making, because he is pretending to be the Leader of the Opposition. We all know exactly what he is about.

My reaction to what has happened in relation to the Sentencing Council’s guidelines was very clear when I made the oral statement last week in this House: we will never stand for a two-tier approach to sentencing.

I am actually getting on with fixing the problem, rather than looking for a bandwagon to jump on, which is why I have already written to the Sentencing Council. I will be meeting it later this week, and I have made it very clear that I will consider its role and its powers.

If I need to legislate, I will do so, but I will ensure that whatever changes I bring forward are workable and deliver the fair justice system that we all need and deserve—one that his Government did not deliver.

Liz Twist
Blaydon and Consett
Lab
12:24
Question
UIN: 903136

T4.   The principle of equality before the law is integral to our justice system, but the new guidelines from the Sentencing Council—which were welcomed by the previous Government—have put that principle at risk.

Does the Lord Chancellor agree that Conservative Members have a lot of explaining to do?

Vikki Slade
Mid Dorset and North Poole
LD
12:25
Question
UIN: 903134

T2.

The Government’s statistics on women in the criminal justice system show that women are more often prosecuted for much more minor offences and suffer from short prison sentences, which have huge social and emotional effects on their children and increase their likelihood of being taken into care.

What steps is the Department taking to continue delivering the female offender strategy delivery plan for 2022 to 2025 and to reach beyond it, thinking about the negative impacts on the children of offenders?

Shabana Mahmood

The hon. Lady raises an important point. That is why I set up the Women’s Justice Board specifically to make recommendations—I believe that these are policy choices that are properly made by directly elected politicians.

We will make progress on the situation of women in our prisons, particularly those who are mothers, because we know that the harm passes down generations, and we are determined to stop it.

Jessica Toale
Bournemouth West
Lab
Question
UIN: 903137

T5. Victims of rape have been consistently failed by our justice system. Under the Tories, 60% of victims dropped out of their cases due to long waiting times, and in my own area of Bournemouth, the charging rate is only 5.8%.

Given the outrage we have heard from Conservative Members about the court backlog and the state of our system, which was left to us by their own Government, can the Lord Chancellor please tell us what we are doing to fix the problem and put victims first?

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice
Alex Davies-Jones

I thank my hon. Friend for that very important question. As part of our manifesto, we committed to fast-tracking rape cases through the system. We are carefully considering the best way to do so, and we will be able to say more about our plans shortly.

We are also creating independent legal advisers for adult rape victims, who will be able to access that support at any point from report to trial, so that they know their rights and their rights are protected.

Lewis Cocking
Broxbourne
Con
12:26
Question
UIN: 903139

T7.   The Government say that foreign national offenders make up 12% of the prison population. Can the Secretary of State tell me when that number will be zero?

Shabana Mahmood
12:27

What I can tell the hon. Gentleman is that this Government have made faster progress than the previous Government on the deportation of foreign national offenders from our prisons, with numbers that are over 20% higher than the same time last year, and we will keep moving forward.

The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice
Sarah Sackman
12:28

I am sorry to hear about that tragic case in my hon. Friend’s constituency.

Encouraging or assisting suicide is an offence under the Suicide Act 1961, and sending communications that encourage or assist serious self-harm is an offence under the Online Safety Act 2023, but we are going to tighten up the law to address the situation that my hon. Friend has described.

Of course, this is about not just the law, but the enforcement of the law as well.

Sarah Bool
South Northamptonshire
Con
Question
UIN: 903142

T9.   We all agree that the court backlogs must be cleared, as justice for victims is essential. However, are the Government heeding the Law Society’s advice to not waste precious time and resources on an intermediate court, and what engagement have they had with the Law Society on that?

Sarah Sackman

As the Lord Chancellor has said, our priority is delivering swifter justice for victims and bearing down on the Crown court backlog. That is why we have asked Sir Brian Leveson to consider all options, which have to include reclassification of offences and the intermediate court.

We have to have a whole-system reform, but I fear that if we were to exclude those options, we would not be gripping the problem.

Paula Barker
Liverpool Wavertree
Lab
Question
UIN: 903140

T8. A significant proportion of those who experience homelessness are ex-offenders. I have previously raised concerns that the drive to alleviate the prison places crisis must not add to the homelessness emergency.

The Deputy Prime Minister is in the process of establishing an inter-ministerial group on tackling homelessness. Will my right hon.

Friend’s Department play a full and active role in that inter-ministerial group, and ensure that Ministers and officials from the Ministry of Justice are adequately represented?

Sir Nicholas Dakin
12:30

My hon. Friend makes a very good point, and the Ministry of Justice will play a full part in the inter-ministerial group.

Esther McVey
Tatton
Con
12:30

I welcome the Secretary of State’s attempts to prevent the Sentencing Council from changing the sentencing process, which would lead to a two-tier justice system.

If, however, the council will not budge—as appears to be the case—a two-tier justice system will arrive in just 21 days, contradicting the key principle of the legal system that everyone should be equal before the law without discrimination.

Will the Secretary of State introduce legislation immediately to ensure that that two-tier justice system does not come about?

Shabana Mahmood
12:30

I have already set out exactly what I am going to do. I have written to the Sentencing Council, using the powers that I have to do so, and I will be meeting it later this week.

I have made it very clear that I will consider its role and powers, and if I need to legislate, I will not hesitate to do so.

Luke Murphy
Basingstoke
Lab
12:30

One of my constituents has endured prolonged financial abuse due to drawn-out divorce financial order proceedings, which largely ignore domestic abuse except in rare cases.

Will the Minister commit to reviewing financial settlement proceedings guidance to ensure that the impact of domestic abuse is properly considered, and to prevent the legal system from being used as a tool of continued coercion and control?

Alex Davies-Jones
12:30

I thank my hon. Friend for his important question, and my thoughts are with his constituent as she navigates this difficulty.

The Government will consider carefully the 2024 report on financial provision on divorce, in which the Law Commission looked into the specific issue of domestic abuse as a factor.

Later this year the Government will consult on the delivery of our manifesto commitment to strengthen the rights and protections of cohabiting couples, because all abuse is abuse, financial or otherwise.

Sir Julian Lewis
New Forest East
Con
12:30

When someone enters this country illegally from another country to which we are not allowed to deport them, and when they have previously expressed support for terrorism and terrorist organisations, but not in this jurisdiction, is the Secretary of State content that the Government have enough powers to protect the community from such a person walking free in our society?

Shabana Mahmood
12:30

The right hon. Gentleman raises an incredibly important point. I am discussing with the Home Secretary the full range of powers that we need to have at our disposal, and she has already made it clear that we will not hesitate to act further if we need to.

However, it is important that we are able to deport offenders who pose a risk to our country.

Warinder Juss
Wolverhampton West
Lab

Last week, at a Justice Committee hearing, it was confirmed that an effective probation service is essential to the rehabilitation of offenders and to prevent reoffending. However, over the years the service has been under immense strain owing to increased demand.

What steps is the Secretary of State taking to ensure that probation officers have manageable caseloads, and that support is provided for their mental health and wellbeing to avoid high levels of stress and burnout, and also to help with the recruitment and retention of staff?

Sir Nicholas Dakin
12:30

Let me take this opportunity to pay tribute to the probation service. My hon. Friend is right to draw attention to the chaotic running of the service under the last Government.

We are actively monitoring the effectiveness of the probation reset policy and assessing its impact on workload capacity, the time saved, and the increased focus on individuals posing the highest risk to public safety.

We recognise the significant pressure that probation officers have been under, which is why comprehensive wellbeing support models have been put in place across our services, including dedicated wellbeing leads for both prison and probation services.

Mr Joshua Reynolds
Maidenhead
LD
12:30

What work is the Secretary of State doing with the Victims’ Commissioner to ensure that the families of British citizens who are murdered abroad have the same rights as the families of homicide victims in the United Kingdom?

Alex Davies-Jones
12:30

I regularly meet both the Victims’ Commissioner for England and Wales and the London Victims’ Commissioner to consider all issues affecting victims and their families.

We are strengthening the powers of the Victims’ Commissioner through legislation, we will be strengthening the victims code, and we will of course consider any other measures that are needed to protect victims and their families wherever they may be.

Mr Paul Foster
South Ribble
Lab

On several occasions I have met my constituent Beverley, whose son suffered a horrific murder. He was stabbed more than 140 times. She has been desperately attempting to get hold of the court transcripts, but to no avail. Will Ministers please meet me to help this still grieving mum?

Sarah Sackman

I am really horrified to hear of that case. Of course, as I mentioned earlier, the transcript of sentencing remarks should have been made available free of charge, but I am happy to meet my hon. Friend to discuss how transcripts of trials more broadly can be made available.

Siân Berry
Brighton Pavilion
Green

On Radio 4’s “Today” programme last week, Matthew Ryder KC, who sits as a judge, praised the extreme helpfulness of pre-sentencing reports for passing effective sentences. Will the Secretary of State do as he asks and endorse the importance, value and independence of the Sentencing Council?

Shabana Mahmood

We all agree across the House, I hope, that pre-sentencing reports play a vital role in ensuring that whoever is passing a sentence has all the relevant facts at their disposal.

I do not believe that access to such reports, or whether a sentencer asks for them, should be dictated by race or ethnic background. They should be made available, and I would like to see more use of pre-sentencing reports across the board for every type of offender.

Kim Johnson
Liverpool Riverside
Lab

Manchester Metropolitan University estimates that over 1,000 people are convicted under joint enterprise each year, costing the taxpayer £1.2 billion. Does the Minister agree that we need to amend the law on joint enterprise to free up spaces in our prisons?

Shabana Mahmood

The law on joint enterprise has already developed somewhat since the previous Court of Appeal decision. I know that the Director of Public Prosecutions is keeping under review how prosecuting decisions are made. At this point we have no plans to go further, but I am happy to ensure that my hon.

Friend can meet the relevant Minister.

Jim Allister
North Antrim
TUV

Across the United Kingdom, inquests are defined as being for the purpose of finding out who the deceased was, and how, when and where they died; they are not trials and they are not about assigning blame, even when they are extended into article 2 investigations.

Yet in Northern Ireland we have had findings of blame in respect of SAS soldiers killing active terrorists. Does the Minister agree that the Crime and Policing Bill affords an opportunity, through suitable amendment, to bring uniformity to the operation of inquests across the United Kingdom?

Alex Davies-Jones

The hon. and learned Gentleman is right to confirm that an inquest should be an inquisitorial process. It should not be adversarial either.

I will raise the issue that he has mentioned with the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, but what is deemed to be in scope of legislation is a matter for the House authorities and the Leader of the House.

Brian Leishman
Alloa and Grangemouth
Lab

Prison maintenance privatisation has been a complete and utter disaster. When will it be taken back in-house?

Sir Nicholas Dakin

We are investing approximately £500 million over two years in prison and probation service maintenance to improve conditions across our estate, but it is fair to say we have inherited a system in serious need of repair.

The estimated cost of bringing the prison estate to a fair condition and maintaining it till the end of the decade is £2.8 billion. The programme is now under way, and we hope that we will make as much progress as possible.

Mr Speaker

If Members keep standing, it makes it easier for me.

Ayoub Khan
Birmingham Perry Barr
Ind

One of the key objectives of the Sentencing Council is to ensure that there is parity of sentence up and down the country. It is a known fact that people from ethnic minorities sometimes get tougher custodial sentences than their white counterparts for similar offences.

Given that, does the Lord Chancellor regret her attempt to discredit the considered and evidence-based conclusions of some of the most esteemed members of our judiciary when they published the guidelines on pre-sentencing reports?

Shabana Mahmood

What I am shocked about is that we can see a disparity in the overall cohort sentencing outcomes. Everybody accepts that we are not quite sure why it is happening, and there has not been sufficient curiosity over the last few years to work out why that is the case.

My view is that if we can see a problem or think we have one, we need to get to the bottom of what is actually going on before we start coming up with broad policy solutions to fix that problem.

I also think that some of these broad policy decisions are better made by Ministers, because we are directly elected individuals who will pay the price for the consequences of our choices. That is a conversation that I will pick up with the Sentencing Council when we meet later this week.

Steve Race
Exeter
Lab
12:40

In 2020, Lorraine Cox was brutally murdered in Exeter. Her murderer dismembered her body, and as a result her family have never been able to fully lay Lorraine to rest.

Her father, Tony Cox, has been campaigning for the implementation of Helen’s law 2, meaning that desecrating or concealing a body would become a separate criminal offence. Will the Minister meet me to discuss whether the implementation of Helen’s law 2 is possible?

Alex Davies-Jones

I will happily meet my hon. Friend to discuss that further.

Blake Stephenson
Mid Bedfordshire
Con

What are this Government doing to crack down on unqualified people representing themselves as solicitors?

Sarah Sackman

As the hon. Member well knows, the solicitors profession is highly regulated. We have the Solicitors Regulation Authority, which itself is regulated by the Legal Services Board.

All our professionals, whether they are practising in criminal or civil law, are highly respected and highly regulated, and we are indebted to them.

Jonathan Hinder
Pendle and Clitheroe
Lab

I was shocked to read the Sentencing Council’s response to the Secretary of State last night, with its arrogant tone. As she has said, this Parliament is sovereign, and the fact is that we have given too much power away to these unelected bodies in recent years.

Can I reassure her of my support, and can she reassure me that she will not rest until we retain equality before the law?

Shabana Mahmood

I thank my hon. Friend. I am very much looking forward to my meeting with the Sentencing Council later this week. As I have made clear, I am looking into the roles and powers of the council, and I will not hesitate to legislate if I need to do so.

Sir Ashley Fox
Bridgwater
Con

The two-tier sentencing guidelines take effect on 1 April. If the Lord Chancellor is sincere about having a justice system that treats everyone equally, will she not support our Bill to block the guidelines?

Shabana Mahmood

I have already made my position clear. I have written to the Sentencing Council, and I will be meeting it later this week. I am reviewing the roles and powers of the council, and I will not hesitate to legislate if I need to do so.

Mr Speaker

I call the Chair of the Select Committee.

Andy Slaughter
Hammersmith and Chiswick
Lab

Last month, the Justice Committee heard evidence from governors of prisons with some of the highest drug use rates in the country. From detecting drones to body scanners and physical barriers, they all felt under-resourced in technology and investment.

What is the Secretary of State doing to better equip prison staff to keep drugs out of prisons?

Shabana Mahmood

We have already pressed ahead with further measures on X-ray and baggage scanners, and we are taking action to deal with the problem of drones. My hon.

Friend will be aware that, for security considerations, I am not going to give the detail of some of those mitigations and of our proposals for tackling drones, because they are used by those involved in serious organised crime.

However, I can assure him that I, Ministers and all officials, including those working across the prison estate, are seized of this matter, and we are determined to crack down on drones bringing drugs into our prisons.

All content derived from official parliamentary records